I think we had enough so far. We have to decide the future of this wikipedia. The current way of the pedaling this think is quite annoying. I'll write down several options that this wikipedia might take:
Current Situation: Implementing a so-called “standard language” is not a viable option because there is simply no accepted “standard language”. This Wikipedia is not a test board. I don’t want to deal with that issue. That’s what I had to say about this. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. I just had enough about this issue. Second point: there is no right and wrong in dialects. They are just dialects and every dialect is right. That’s why other variants have to be used.
Future Options: 1. Have separate wikipedias: we have diq.wikipedia and kiu.wikipedia. Then, we wiki-transport all the articles to kiu.wikipedia. There you go, use whichever variants you want. 2. Divide diq.wikipedia into two: Than we have two separate main-pages. This is going to be like “test wikipedia” pages. Than we have to use something like diq/title (or d/title) and kiu/title (or k/title) for headings. System messages will include variants.
I have these two options. We have to choose a direction. If you have other new ideas feel free to write here. --Xosere 16:16, 20 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- What is the problem on the standard language? It is using the most original variants of the same words, this ist the standard language. Everybody is free to use the words of his own region (example: bacar, suke), but what is false in that, if everybody use the most old variants of the same words? --AliErsoy 18:15, 20 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I am tired of these same discussions over and over. No, I'm not going to let you to turn this into a discussion of standard language. Enough is enough. There are already pages of pages of the same discussion. I want to write in a language that really do exist. This is not try-and-fail board. You are free to create a "standard" language, but Wikipedia is not your test area. Go do it somewhere else. Xosere 01:25, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Look, you even didn't understand the simple word "wına" ("böyle"), and thought again that the problem were the Northern Dialect. ALLTOUGH this word is from Central and Southern Zazaki. That what you believe has not doing with the facts. To believe is not to know. You have to research more about the words they you not understand. --AliErsoy 10:09, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- There are a lot of dialect in diq itself. That many times words are different. However there is no problem in understanding each other. Our sound are the same. --Xosere 19:24, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I want to write in a language that do realy exist. Feel free to create a "standard" language somewhere else. I am also tired of writing and deleting. this is diq.wikipedia.org. Xosere 12:30, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I think Ali is right with his arguments. And if Wikipedia is not a test board, who wanted to create a ne alphabet and some new grammar rules? Before all, nobody is here aganist vernaculars, but we don't insist on our regional forms and are open for critics and new ideas. We talked at the beginning about the standardization and the criteria and you agreed. You say, this is not a test area. You tried to empoze us your new alphabet and some other things. Your problem Xosere is, that you are not yet able to write on your own dialect, which is also very different from "dimili" (southern). You did vrey much to build Zazakipedia and nobobody denies that. But it is the presupposition at all to rule and speak a language perfectly to work on a encyclopaedia. otherwise the ones credibility is doubtable. Don't think the problem of the several vernaculars will be solved when you divide. The differences between southern and central zaza and central itself is bigger than in nothern zaza. --Asmên, 14:57 (CET), 21.9.2008
- You are not bringing any idea here. All you do is blaming blaming and blaming. These three dialect idea was yours; now you say I am going to make it only one code at ethnolugue. What a bomber! Yes Bingol-pali are included in that diq dialect. You can't argue against to that. There are several people who will contribute to this wikipedia if things get going. You are free to create your "standard" langauge, and create a wikipedia too if you convience wikimedia. However, this is "diq" wikipedia. Diq does not include kiu. I am proposing you several ideas to help to solve the issue, but all you do is blame someone else. You guys did this all the time. People don't have to use your standard, vate's standard or whatever. You can't do it especially using our code. --Xosere 19:21, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Asmen and Mirzali do write in a language that really exist. The words they use do exist in the Zazaki-Language. So its not artifical. And anyway from village to village every Zaza pronounce the words different. "diq" and "kiu" are part of the "zza"-Language.
- At the begin you agreed, that is necessary, to create a common phonetic. And now you support the chaos and mean that is no a problem, that everybody use the 9999999 loud-variants of the same word. What is the sense of this thinkness? This different phonetic is the reason for the communication problem.
- Yes, in some parts they made a mistake, as in the favorism of the word "ki" for "also", while nobody of the Central and Southern Zazas can understand this. But 90% of their standardized phonetic is right. --AliErsoy 13:16, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- It is artificial new langauge that nobody understand. Because this artificial language people do not contribute or even read or even care about this project, not the mention's Mirazli's arrogant attitude irked people. I understand them now why should they do when they don't understand that artificial language. --Xosere 19:27, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Xosere, you make here every time new rules, and others need to keep it or what? You don’t even want to learn simple grammatical rules in Zazaki. It is also not a standard language, each Zazaki dialect is equivalent. But you have no idea of any Zazaki dialect and you object you permanently, with what you say. We are those of being who is tired. You should stop with your tenacity. So you will achieve nothing with such an attitude and nobody will support you. You need that to get finally. Otherwise you will harm this project and the Zazaish language.--Mirzali 13:53, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- The funny thing dude is that neither you nor Asmen contributed here that much; However, you guys feel okay to manipulate anything here. I do study my own dialects's grammar, and I have three people who will contribute here. They are ready and they have tons of articles. I will do the technical stuff here and contribute with some short articles. Now, as I said this is "diq" wikipedia. You have the option to have a "kiu" wikipedia. This is very easy and most confortable. If not, then the option is to divide this wikipedia. If diq was not occupied I was going to that months ago. Xosere 19:33, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- You arrogant, selfish and stupid booby! You're ungrateful and disrespectful as well. You don't even know the difference between kal (raw) and khal (old) and like many other things like this. So do you want to make us know that you supposedly get super help from anyone? You probably dream. Where are your people? Who keeps them from doing? You are only bluffing the whole time. Come on man, because of you, we can't continue working. Other nations are light years ahead of us. And we, a few people, we argue about little things. That is just ridiculous.
- Everyone is free to contribute. As if anyone would hold a pistol to somebody's head. It's their own uncertainty, because they have little or nothing knowledge of the language. So most people can’t write a simple sentence, not to mention they write any article in an encyclopaedia. Who in other Wikipedias lets ignorance or errors? It is obviously because when we intervene when it should be scientifically. Anything else would be irresponsible and naive.
- Come on, be fair and admit finally your guilt and your hopelessness. Excuses like Standard language or North- and South dialect bring us nowhere. All of them are our common worldly goods. Precisely this makes the whole thing out. Separations only harm us. --Mirzali 23:23, 21 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- You know this language will take you nowhere. you got your answer before. So, I let this one go this time. Because of you arrogance many people left already. your arrogance is many times the cause of problems here. Be careful, it is hurting you more than me. i am not going to let you use this wikipedia for your personal pleasures. This is "diq" wikipedia and only and only "diq" will be used here. Go try your personal ideas somewhere else.
- p.s:Kalik means "old person" and "grandfather"/"grandmother" in southern dialects. Look at Harun Turgut's dictionary p.153 and Koyo Berz's dictionary. It might be different in Kirmanjki. That's why you should have a kiu-wikipedia. and let me, Zaza Yasar, and my other friends to start doing our work here. --Xosere 03:03, 22 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I’m quite sure that it does not hurt you, like me. Why should it. You had all our support only through it you reached to open this page. And now you have an easy game to manage an established page. Rather, it is far away from managing, you abuse it for your personal purpose only and play with it. On the other hand, you and Dêrsımıc put stones on the way, in which you both have contacted the Kurdists. You're probably still proud and malicious about it. Aren't you?
- You haven’t even experienced nearly as much what I have been gone through in my life. I wish it even not to my worst enemy. And you’re still talking about arrogance? You're probably born with a golden spoon in your mouth. Why should you have any knowledge about your own nation and own language. Even with any books you're far away and can’t continue. There are more than the other books you mentioned. For your information, I know about all Zazaki dictionaries and I have them all. The scientific accuracy of some of them is still doubtful.
- I don’t know what kind of grass do you smoke or which drugs do you take, but it has change you very in any case significantly. I advise you to let the fingers from any of them. Anyway, it seems you never come to reason. But you will find no friends in your behavior and get no help. Believe me, you will stand alone and you'll still be surprised.
- P.S. In the words kal (raw), khal (old) and qal (saying), there is a pronunciation difference, so they will be written differently. There are many similar examples like this. But you will not understand, because you shall be stubborn and don’t also want it to learn. So don’t come again with any other bullshit unlike this, because you need it now to know that your arguments are not correct. --Mirzali 14:20, 22 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Most of stuff you wrote above is nonsense. For "khal" stuff, we don't have "kh" sound in southern dialects. It is just plain simple. So there you go: you should have your kiu.wikipedia to write stuffs like khal, phanc, -e endings and so on. I don't know why s/one like is scientific, other not. You just monopolized "science" for your personal ideas. Wait a minute. Those people are native/natural speakers of Zazaki, but you are not. Dialects are dialects. They can't be wrong or right. --Xosere 05:38, 23 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Xoser ("Xosere" doesn't exist!, even your nickname is a big mistake), the only reason that you don't understand simple words and sentences and also high sentences is, that your Zazaki is not enough good. Why you don't accept this and search always problems in other people and dialects. Why this ignorance? I showed you hundred times that the Northern dialect is not the problem.
Your Zazaki is so bad that you believe even that the simple song "nina rina" were in the Northern dialect different, while the basic of all dialects is the same. Central and Southern Zazas are against features like -e. But a Zaza who can speak Zazaki good has no problem with the Northern dialect in the writing.
You self know, that your Zazaki is not enough good, so why you will be sad, if you don't understand high sentences or even simple words, they are in all dialects the same.
You even didn't understand simple words like "game", while this is in every dialect and iranian language the same.
Also my Zazaki is not enough good, but I accept this and don't search a scapegoat!
And the Vate-Textes they you understand are in all dialects the same.
So don't coin such shit. And I still wait for the table, which evidence that the Northern Dialect is an another langauge and that Northern dialect is the problem, that you not understand anything.
Why you don't create this table? Put the words in this table which you don't understand, then we can see, how true is your sight.
And Mirzali wrote "khal" and not "khalık". Khalık means the same in the Northern dialect.
And if you want write in your village dialect, then write, nobody will change your texts.
Be sılamanê german. Ma gani zıwanê ho hewlêr bımusime ke her çi hewlêr fehm bıkerime. Eke tı yew çekuye fehm nêkenay, raver nia de lehçanê binan de çıya, sade wıni tı eşkenay bızanê heqiqet çıyo. --AliErsoy 16:39, 22 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- nicks are nicks; they can be anything. this is my choice. my zazaki is good enough. besides, those who will contribute to diq. wikipedia like zaza yasar, ismail soylemez, (maybe faruk irement) are native/natural speakers. On the other hand, asman and mirzali are not natural speakers. there you go again.
- people from my hometown don't understand what asman & mirazli co. writes here, even zaza yasar don't understand. We do have both "kal" and "kalik" in my dialect so what!
- we don't have "game" in my dialect, we have "gom", so it is perfectly okay that i don't understand the northern variant. --Xosere 05:50, 23 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Bıra Ali, thanks for your efforts!
I also alluded to the word khalık (old man; grandfather), because he has change it. This is a derivative form of khal (old), by adding of the diminutive suffix of –ık (in the meaning of little).
Bıra Ali, don’t make it more complicated for him than it is. He will not understand it. By the way, there are two forms, namely xoser (masculine form) and xosere (feminine form) for independent, free. In this case it doesn’t fit the feminine form to a man as name. I think, you seemingly wanted to explain this way. --Mirzali 18:46, 22 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- we do have both "kal" and "kalik" in my dialect so what! if you want to write kh and -e endings, you can have a kiu.wikipedia, but this is "diq" wikipedia. by the way, we have "xuserê" in my dialect which add a menaing like turkish "-lik luk". they you go one more time. Xosere 05:50, 23 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- @Mirzali: I thought, that only mans do use as in Turkish the word "özgür" for human names. Yes, i knew that "xosere" is the feminine word of this, but I didn't know that is using for human names.
- @Xoser: You say :"even zaza yasar don't understand. ". ZazaYasar said before years: "Yaslilarinizi anliya biliyorum, sadece gencleriniz cümleleri ve grameri yanlis kuruyorlar diye anlasilmiyor". This words were from ZazaYasar in MSN to me and also in the PIA-Forum he said the same thing, he means, he can understand old Northern Zazas, but not young Northern Zazas, while both speak the same dialect. Here we can see, that its all only politic.
- In the Southern Dialect does exist also "gam" or "gamı". A I said: Its only a phonetic problem, the problem is not the Northern dialect.
- If you think different then create me tables whith that you show, that Northern Zazs do use other words than the other Dialects.
- I still don't understand why you want split the Northern Zazas from the other Zazas. Why this hate? The sentence "artifical language" is false. Because we speak all the same langauge and Mirzali and Asmen use only words from the same language Zazaki.
- Its not artifical. From Village to Village there are 28900000 loud-variants of the same word. So what is artifical, if I use the most right variants of my neighbors.
- If my dad say "ez kon" and my mother "ez kena", if my dad say "zon", my mother "jüan". Then what is artifical if i take the most rights form "ez kena" and "zon" of my parents?
- The same is with the standardizing: We took "ez kenan" and "zıwan", because this are the oldest forms. --AliErsoy 15:27, 23 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- There is no hatred at all. My point is very clear: there is no logic behind the idea of writing in a language that people don't understand. This only discourage them. Let people to write and read the way they know. Creating artificial languages are just personal aspirations of several young people many of the are not even natural speakers. The artificiality comes from the fact that combining things in a way that don't exist in reality as a whole identity, Essentially nobody understands. Most people don't care of older forms. If they cared, they would be like Avesta-Zazaki. Anyways, people wants to write and read the way they know. We have to listen to them. We have to encourage them to write. This happens by giving them the opportunity to write the way they know. We should not chase them away or call them "wrong" as some did those things here. The result was unacceptable on my part. I will assure to those people that they are welcomed here. My fist accomplishment is ZazaYasar. I'm convincing other natural speakers. Sometimes it is hard because of their previous experiences here with some certain people. You and everybody know the story well. By and large this is my goal. Help to people to write and make them flourish this Wikipedia. --Xosere 07:06, 24 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Xosere, you provoke us and when we try to explain something, you don’t even listen to it. For you seems everything to be nonsensical. And mainly you enforce your thing. Where remains in your opinion the justice? If you were be fair and could discuss with a civilized manner, you wouldn’t have driven the matter so into the abyss. You don’t even admit your own mistakes and see it as a reproach. You have apparently already forgotten your swear words and insults in your private emails. I'm not unforgiving and this leads not fair here. I leave it on your conscience.
- The standard language should now be moot point. That we now put aside. But, all Zazaki dialects are equal, I always said it. You can read the archive if you forget it maybe. Your arguments are contradictory. If you're in the feel cornered, you try to sell us. Where you say, this is only for DIQ determined and banish the northern dialect from the outset. Where is the equality of all dialects, as if everyone should write what he has learned as a mother tongue. You don’t even know the difference between the dialects. Especially since don’t you know your own dialect well enough. Your dialect is in fact the central Zazaki, for which no code exists. How can you stand up for the Southern dialect? The time now is the pure truth. So don’t misrepresent the matter and stick to the truth.
- And now you accuse people with to be non-native speakers. Every time you come up with something new and confuse the situation even more than it already is. I’m in any case a true native speaker. My first learned language is with certainty Zazaki, because up to my 10th year of life I grew up in the countryside of Pülümür. Even years after, I had ever contacted my relative, especially my grandma and grandpa's, whose primary language Zazaki was. Can you say unlike the same from yourself?
- Please, stop your accusations finally. How can you ignore all of our hard work? How do you take the right to say we should go? Don't come no longer with more excuses and recriminations. With your current behavior, nobody will want to work with you, not even Zaza Yaşar or else who ever. It is probably only your own dream. Then you can still wait a long time, believe me it will be this way. Unless you change yourself for the better and we will continue our work in peace. And everyone is welcome, with his own dialect!
- I already hear the laughter of our enemies. We, a few people can’t tell each other about such an important project in some peace. With mutual accusations and recriminations, we wouldn’t continue. It only costs us all time and nerves with back and forth talking. It would shameful and ridiculous at the same time, if we would fail to solve this situation in peace. --Mirzali 09:56, 24 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- where was your sense of justice when you unjustly chase away people from here. "central zazaki" is a term that is just asmen's own invention. people from siverek to pali understand each other very well. our letters and sounds are the same, and so on. i'm not banning northern zazaki. you have a code "kiu"; you can open your wikipedia under kiu, and write whatever you want. this is just "diq" wikipedia. if you don't want to leave here, just come up with a creative idea so we discuss it. i don't ignore your work; we can wiki-transport everything from here to kiu.wiki. it takes just seconds. on your page, it says you start to really know the language in the 90s. i also used to spoke it with my parents and relatives; i still do. however, zaza yasar, ismail soylemez, and many other are natural speakers. Xosere 07:30, 25 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I see, we are talking past each other. You're just the person who wants to chase some people of this Web site. Who are you actually? You have no right to do so. Where else is there something like this? I have tried a long time with patience and understanding, but at least now I know it makes no more sense with you to further discuss.
- I will not discourage anybody in the future, as long as he/she contributes the correct factual knowledge for Zazaki in common. That was also not previously has been different. I have never attacked anyone personally. My arguments have always been factually what concerned the language. This can be read any case in the archives. It was only your own paranoia, then as now.
- I may as a free man express still my opinion and ideas, probably noticed, scientific theories and no utopias. Unlike you and some others that have little or no idea about the spelling and grammar of this language. And when I tell the truth, it is immediately understood as an insult.
- I do it for our language and not for personal reasons. I have no intentions to reach fame and have no megalomania. I only love Zazaki, with all its dialects and make no exception, because I see the dialects as a wealth of our language. I would be the last one, who would inflict harm on it. Everyone who knows me knows that too.
- One last thing: What does that tell you these sentences?
- Ey verende ra Zazaki fam kerdêne u pilane xo de qesey kerdêne, hama nuştena cı nêzanıtêne. Serra 1990ine de dest kerd zıwanê ma u piyê xo, gına sero, mısa.
- You must correctly understand the contents. The whole language in itself, I could already understand and speak. By learning the script and the intense preoccupation with the language came until 1990. And it is now 18 years ago. Can you say the same about you? So please don’t misrepresent the cause and spread no nonsense. --Mirzali 11:36, 25 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- I am not chasing people away. you are welcome to stay here as long as you write in diq. not only you anyone in the is welcomed here. it is you who chased away people. what's the correct zazaki? anybody can write in their dialect; and that'll be correct. you always claim that science is on you side, but sorry man, dialects are just dialects. they can't be wrong. this just what it is. i also talked to my seniors, parents and relatives in zazaki. so what? this doesn't make you different then me. people that i mentioned above are natural speakers who grow up with just zazaki language. they have a good understanding of their dialects. Xosere 06:17, 26 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Xosere once more, please beware of your statements. On the one hand, you say all dialects are equal and none is wrong. But on the other hand, you say, I can stay as long as I write in DIQ. Is it not paradoxical, what you're saying? Where do you think belongs the Northern dialect to? Thus you exclude some people. Who chase just now the people? It is quite obviously who has anger on others and discriminates them against because of their regional origin.
- Moreover, nobody here states any rules about who can stay here or not. But you're doing it just like that. Come no longer with, because it is only a DIQ Wikipedia. That was not our goal when we started this project together. That is what has been discussed several times. So don’t abuse the Wiki rules for your personal intentions.
- I thought with the accuracy of the information this way: If someone writes something in Zazaki (no matter what dialect), he should pay attention on his spelling and grammar and it must be a factual content, because this is an encyclopedia and not any forum page. Is that so hard to understand? --Mirzali 09:53, 26 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- dialects should be equal in general. what i said that this is DIQ wikipedia. If you open a KIU wikipedia, i think dialects would be more equal. we had a lot of experiences in the past that you guys dominated others. i choose do nothing hoping that there will be a solution that you can accommodate others. this never happened. it became worse cause you dictated others how to write according to what you think is right or wrong. this doesn't work like this. there a lot of variants that makes it hard to accommodate everything in one place. that's why i think there should be a KUI and DIQ wikipedia to allow people to write and read the way they know. if you other options write that down; i opened a new sub-title at the bottom for that. --Xosere 17:59, 28 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- Surely, we are also totally believed and waited. Every time you have an excuse ready. How should it be otherwise? You’re only holding us with your silly arguments my friend. You can keep your ever-changing new ideas for you, and you can possibly achieve them alone in the future. By the way, where ever remain your hotly coveted friends? That is probably just an illusion of yourself, and then you can wait a long time. --Mirzali 06:19, 29 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- i'm not holding you up. you are free to launch a KUI.wikipedia, if you want to write in that dialect. We'll wiki-transport all articles to there in just seconds, and that would be it. --Xosere 05:58, 30 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Xosere wrote: ""If they cared, they would be like Avesta-Zazaki. Anyways, people wants to write and read the way they know." You self know, that is a stupid comparasion. Mirzali and Asmen do only use words they exist in todays Zazaki.
Sorry, that I destroyed your Nature, because I changed the title of your article "niweşiye kergun" to the more original southern/northern-form "nêweşiya kergan". Whats a desaster. What is on this standardizing artifical and un-understandable? Which words or features Mirzali and Asmen do use, they are not exist in Southern or Central.
Let show us examples. With the -e endings you showed us an example. Yes, the -e endings do exist only in Northern (in Southern there are -ı endings, but not in all words). But which other features and words do exist only in Northern?
I see only a phonetic problem, which is exist from village to village. The northern dialect is not the problem. And don't be like a populist and copy the opinion of people from Genc they are the same shit as our Dersimcis.
I am self for the deleting of the -e endings, becuase all Southern and Central Zazas are against this.
PS: As I said: People they want write in their own village dialect as you they can do it, nobody also change Faruk Iremets articles. So what is the problem. Write in your village dialect. Why you want divide the Northern Zazas from the other Zazas. --AliErsoy 16:00, 24 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Standard Language without feminine -e endings and without th, kh, ph, çh-letters[çımeyi bıvurne]
I think, only in suchwise Central and Southern Zazas can accept a Standard Writing Language. We may not ignore this. Nobody of this people want accept this -e endings, also the Southern Zazas not, while in some parts the use -ı endings. Maybe this all dialects lost "e", but this is not important.
Today the most Zazas don't know this feature. And also the Southern Zazas they use -ı don't use this ending in every word, as example they say "weşi" ("sağlık") and not "weşiyı".
Also in the Xozat Dialect we say weşi and not weşiye, we don't use "e" for this "-lik" cases.
I think, it is not possible that any Central or Southern Zaza will accept this, not today, not tomorrow, and not in 20 years.
This feature only split the Zaza Union and make us weak against the enemies.
And anyway: Feminine in Zazaki is in Obliquus and Rectus the same.
So there is no difference if i say "ensiklopediya hoser" or "ensiklopediya hosere".
Because we can not differ between rectus and obliqus in feminine. So this -e endings are needless.
Its also not were artifical, there are dialects, they are not use any endings for feminine.
They say simply: cinık = kadın (North: cinıke), mêrdi cinık / mêrdê cinık = kadının kocası (North: mêrdê cinıke)
What is here the difference in the meaning? Also without -e endings the meaning remain the same. Because in Feminine there is not a difference between Rectus and Obliquus as in masculine.
This is only a produtictive idea to dissolv this big problem. With this -e endings nobody accept a standard language.
Please be ready for compromises, elsewise the Central and Southern Zazas will be split themselve from the Northern Zazas and our enemies will assimilate us better.
Its not the end of the world, if we don't use this -e endings. Maybe you are right, that -e endings are a old feature. But this is today not important, all Central and Southern Zazas don't accept this. Neither normal people nor intellectuel people.
So why this insistence. We can create a standard language only if this language is accaptable for Northern, Central and Southern Zazas, for all groups. --AliErsoy 19:14, 24 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
PS: The th, kh, ph, çh-letters are also only accepting of a few Northern Zazas. South and Central Zazas don't need this. So its unnecessary to put this to the Standard. Also Vate don't use this letters and their standard is alltough well. --AliErsoy 19:58, 24 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- with or without -e endings or aspired letters, standard zazaki is out of question for diq.wikipedia. we just waste a lot of time for that issue. this is not the place for making a standard language. feel free to make one, but please leave this project alone. i had enough and other people had enough, and enough is enough. having said that, you can bring other ideas to table in regards to the future of this wikipedia. so again, this wikipedia will not go the way that it used tobe which really was a horrible way of pedaling this project and also this wikipedia is not a place for your standard language aspirations. here we are going to write in language. Xosere 07:20, 25 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Ez Zaza yaşar o ez zazaki nûsena..
Şıma çira enhlizki nûseni, bêri Ziwuni ma dir binûsi.. Ez o mehel cewab duna şıma..
-ı/-e Zazaki dır may niya Zazaki dı hem may u zafamar dı vecyena la tım nêveciyena. U ner di zi -i estu ını ma dı estu ay binun dı çiniyu.. Ez bilasew hin nimune medi, çûnki waştey şıma Zazaki raşt kerdış niyu Zazaki xerepnayışo.
Şıma pêri Bid'at keni newe ra çi vecêni, çiko Zazaki di çiniyu şıma vecêni.
-ıye şıma zi 'arewki -IYA ra yena tirki di zafa Zazakiyê ma di têna kelime ki ma di esti yani orcinal 'arewki ra ayini di esta. Şıma wazeni pêrê Zazaki pê -iye biqedni.. Ini zi yo bid'ato..
Nimune: yewm(Roc) + iya (-i,iy, ê, ey) = yewmiya =Tr= günlük ino nimu^ne beso, ez otir texmin kena ki ma di 10 hebi 'arewki kelimê ya esti ya ciniyi ma ini zi 'arewki ra gureti ma di orcinal mendi -iya şıma zi tirki ra gureto ayra biyu -iye niyu zi şıma -a kerda -e.. muhim niyu. Ma dı yo vatey verinun estu : Merdim gera raşt ra vac' raşt, çot ra vac' çot ! La ez ınê şıma dı nêvinena, eger şıma di yew çi estu o çi raşt o. Şıma her çi zuni ma nêzuni.. Vercê xo raşt kerin hama bêrini Zazaki raşt kerin'.. U şıma hama may-ner şıma di biyu vin şıma hê inê qewul nêkeni.. şıma may-ner herkesi ra vani: Xalo ti se kena, bira ti se kena, Wayê ti se kena.. Xalo Ti xêr ama.. ves...
şıma se keni bikerini nefl gurey ma mebeni, hama nêşkeni Zazaki qal bikeri yeni zazaki keni standart u 'heta 5000 'henzar ver şıni..
Zazaki ya ki şıma hê itya di nûseni şıma fahm keni?? Ez Zazakiyê şıma fahm nêkena.
Zazayaso 11:27, 7 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)
- Bıra ZazaYaşar, zey wendışê to, ez zi zey to fıkır kenan, fıkrê to tayê meselan de raşto. Ewro Zazaki de sade Zazakiyê Zımey de eno peybendê -'e'y seba mayki esto. Aye ra ez zi duştê (karşı) eney peybendi deran. Yew Zazakiyo Standard de ma gani eney peybendi megêrim, eke ma wazenim her kes eney standardi qebul bıkero. Zey vatışê to: Oricanali zaf muhima, mı zi eno çend rey vat bi. Tı gani pê Asmêni û Mirzaliy bıguriyê. Tenya kes nêşkeno teba vırazo, yewiya zazayan lazımo. Şıma gani piya yew enstitû vırazê, tı, Asmên, Mirzali, Faruk İremet, Koyo Berz ves.
- Pê sılamanê german --AliErsoy 12:25, 7 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)
New Ideas[çımeyi bıvurne]
I'm open to new ideas. standard zazaki and statuesque is not an option to discuss the issue. if you have an idea about how to keep dialects together equally in one system, please write it here. otherwise, i don't have any other option except flourishing the diq.wikipedia in the dialect that its assigned. Xosere 06:34, 26 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- The only solution is to create a committee which founds a standard language. Elsewise Zazaki can not develope hisself and remains a village language which nobody takes seriously. Without a standardization the young people will turkizifize themself because of this confusing in Zazaki, there are 5007763634 sound-variatons of the same word. This is only stupid, confusing and unnecessary. The northern dialect is not the problem. The problem are this stupid sound-differences, which changes from village to village.
- We need a standard. For me is as example the Luri language also only a dirty village language, because this language has not a standard. Sorry but the most people think about languages without a standard suchwise. Or do you can take languages as Luri, Caspian langauges, Baluchi etc. seriously? If I think about this languages, then only this comes into my sense: confusion confusion and confusion. Because they have not an unify language. Every village has its own pronouncing as in Zazaki. And then imagine the young zazas, if they see this confusion.
- It's not richness if there are 5776 lound-variants of the 1:1 same word. It's also not richness if you pronounce in english the word "city" as "coty". Richness comes only if exists a nuance in the meaning.
- No langauge can live out today without a Standard.
- So convince ZazaYasar and Ismail Söylemez that they work with Asmên and Mirzali, this were a big step for Zazaki and against the Vate-kurdifization. Don't be suggesitve, i know that you don't like Asmen or Mirzali, but think only to the future of Zazaki.
- It's makes not sense to wait 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or 100 years to build a standard. We have aids, the ressources, the historic sources, the facts. Should we wait until Zazaki does die?
- Ma rê standard lazımo, tebayo bin nê.
- (Bize Standard lazımdır, başka bişey [other thing] değil.)
- --AliErsoy 18:40, 29 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
- i don't know how many times i told you, and i don't know why you insist on writing the same thing here over and over. i told you that i support the idea of creating a "standard" language. however, this is not the place to do it. this is a place where we write down knowledge in languages that exist and people understands. you just wasting your valuable time here if you want to create a standard zazaki. this just a wrong place for you to hang out. i hope you get the point. Xosere 05:54, 30 Keşkelun 2008 (UTC)
Feminine -e endings[çımeyi bıvurne]
It is outrageous to deface existing articles. Who excludes the -e endings, he/she should even write his/her own articles. It’s free to each one here to write on his own dialect, but please don’t deface existing articles. The only change can only be on the grammar and spelling in accordance with the dialect in which the article is written.
In addition, we had repeatedly discussed if the e-ending would omitted from words, that’s changing the sex of these words. Accordingly, should also be changed all other extensions of the words in question. Otherwise it will bring us much trouble, as it is already occurred through some changes. It costs a lot of work and effort to correct these errors. --Mirzali 14:32, 24 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)
The delevoping of the feminine -e ending[çımeyi bıvurne]
My theory of the delevoping of the feminine -e ending in Zazaki, in comparison:
|Obliquus feminine||ez ceneke vênenan||ez jınıkê dıbînım||ben kadını görüyorum|
|Obliquus feminine||xebera roce||xebera rojê||günün haberi|
|Obliquus masculine||ez cıwamêrdi ra gênan||ez jı camêrî dıgırım||ben erkekden alıyorum|
We see here, that Kurdish (Standard Kurmanji) gets in the 2. Case (Obliquus, Bükün) this -e ending in the form of -ê.
Let show us further:
|Rectus masculine and feminine||o , a||ew||o (kişisel zamir)|
|Obliquus masculine and feminine||ey (o+i = oy > ey), aye (a+e)||wî (w + î), wê (w+ê)||onu|
Wee see here:
- Zazaki Obliquus Masculine: -i
- Zazaki feminine for Obliquus and Rectus: -e
- Kurdish Obliquus Masculine -î
- Kurdish feminine only for Obliquus: -ê
In Southern Zazaki there was an e -> ı change as in many other words, therefore wee see words like rojı, gamı, dewı etc.
And in some dialects this -ı comes only as in Kurdish and as in Central Zazaki in Obliquus.
So we have two Options:
- "e" only for the 2. case (obliquus)
- "e" for both cases as in northern and many southern dialects
For both cases makes Zazaki more simple, one can differ better what is feminine and what is masculine. But its the decision of the zaza people. I only want to show that "e" in Northern is the most old variant for feminine ending, and that the -ı in Southern is a changed verison of it. --AliErsoy 19:00, 25 Tişrino Verên 2008 (UTC)